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The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Owners Group: Discussion Forums

Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Owners Group :: View topic - Isle Of Man TT


Isle Of Man TT
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Russell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Isle Of Man TT Reply with quote

I recall posting a message a year or two back commenting on how conflicted I was by the horror roll of casualties at the Isle Of Man's annual Speedweek.My comment would have been along the lines of my admiration for the skill levels of the riders on such a challenging circuit,coupled with my concern at the ongoing loss of so many vibrant lives, each of whom is loved by others. This year, with the racing not yet completed I read that 3 racers have died already. I remain conflicted in terms of what I think about the whole deal.
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fasterspider
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They died doing what they loved, sucks for the families but, oh well, doesn't bother me in the least.
I DVR the races every year on Velocity

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tbpmusic
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm conflicted too, Russell.
Ray and I have "argued" about this in the past, but not to the point of getting pissed off (we're both too old to get pissed off).
On the one hand, it is the most storied race in motorcycle-dom, and I did some pretty crazy shit myself on two wheels when I was younger. And I love the sidecar races.
But I think maybe the machines have outgrown the course, by a LOT. This is not Daytona, or a groomed high speed track, these are basically country roads, and very dangerous on 180 hp, 200 mph superbikes. Not sure if the answer is a horsepower limit or what.......
But as Ray indicates, they're "men full-growed" - though it saddens me to see it turn into Death Race.

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Steve Searles
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject: Isle of Mann Reply with quote

I as well have concerns and do not like loss of life while pursuing "FUN". Motorsports are awesome. The thrill has our adrenilan flowing but to die for enternainment is not why we are put on this earth. I agree that the machines have gotten too powerful for the narrow hilly bumpy road course called Isle of Mann. An average of 7 die every year there and it has been as high as 10. WOW. Life is precious.
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spurlock
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree completely with you Russell. The IOM is at once an amazing display of skill and equipment and too dangerous (for me) to fully enjoy watching. Here's a good article on the race and its dangers in the NY TImes:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/07/sports/Isle-of-man-TT-motorcycle-race.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur


And a good video profile of two racers here:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/sports/100000005140449/isle-of-man-tt-the-rivals.html?action=click&contentCollection=Sports&region=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&moduleDetail=undefined&pgtype=Multimedia

-Bill

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KirkN
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if, on the mountain climbing forums, people are 'conflicted' about how dangerous Everest is...

OR

hang gliding, base jumping, speedboat racing, cave diving, the running of the bulls in Pamplona, clubbing after 2am, sleeping with another man's wife, marrying a redhead, eating red meat, smoking, drinking alcohol, not getting enough exercise... take your pick.

You don't like it? Don't do it. You're 'conflicted' about it? Don't do it. You think it should be banned or needs "an answer"? DON'T DO IT!




Ok, off my soapbox now.
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Russell
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not arguing for it to be banned. When one of our family heroes,an Isle of man TT winner, who had become a friend, lost his life racing on the Isle Of man the human toll of the event suddenly became real to me.I don't see being conflicted by what happens there as some sort of anti motorcycling crusade. I see it as a sign that I'm growing up.
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spurlock
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell wrote:
I'm not arguing for it to be banned. When one of our family heroes,an Isle of man TT winner, who had become a friend, lost his life racing on the Isle Of man the human toll of the event suddenly became real to me.I don't see being conflicted by what happens there as some sort of anti motorcycling crusade. I see it as a sign that I'm growing up.


Ditto. I'm fine with people engaging in dangerous sports. But watching it is a combination of excitement and appreciation of the riders' skills, but also a fair bit of anxiety. So not a totally enjoyable experience for me.

-Bill

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tbpmusic
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KirkN wrote:
You think it should be banned or needs "an answer"? DON'T DO IT!

Ok, off my soapbox now.


Kirk, you're the only one who mentioned "banning".
Even the crazies at Nascar put a horsepower limit on the cars.
I'm just suggesting that a reasonable displacement or hp limit be considered, something more in line with the track conditions.

It took 50 years (1957) for a 100 mph lap to be turned - Hailwood's 108 mph lap in 1967 stood for 11 years. Even Hailwood (with 16 wins there) said the track scared the shit out of him.
The race will never be "safe", but at least you can try to control and minimize risk.
There's a place for 200 mph bikes, but it's not that particular track.
And the death toll really is appalling by any standard.
I'd hate to see this race go the way of board track racing........

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Thomas8
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fasterspider wrote:
They died doing what they loved...


I'm a lifelong race fan. I've been a racer, an organizer, and, most recently, a race reporter.

Just because I love something doesn't mean that I wish to die doing it or see others die. It tears me up whenever a racer's life is lost.

My other family members want to go to IoM, but it doesn't do much for me. I believe that modern bikes are too fast for the course. Motorcycle technology has far outpaced the advancement of technology that would make trees and curbs softer. It shouldn't be about simply surviving the experience. But the event will continue as long as it brings money to the island. People will continue to race there as long as they have the opportunity. And people will continue to die.

tbpmusic wrote:
...This is not Daytona....


The Daytona 200 is now contested on 600s, not full-on Superbikes, and chicanes have been added over the years to slow the pace and save tires from exploding.

All three deaths at this year's IoM involved riders on liter-class machines, one Superbike and two Superstock. Last year's four deaths involved two liter-class bikes and two 600cc sidecar rigs. I dunno how you'd address that. Limit everyone to 500cc pushrod singles?
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MR.CHocko
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a researcher, and someone well connected to the motorcycle industry, perhaps I can share a few things with everyone here. The Isle of Man is perhaps the oldest and at one time the most prestigious race of its kind before the rise of the AMA and "super bike" era. Everyone is correct that the bikes are getting too fast for the road, these days. They are also according to a former racer, that I talked to are three to four years ahead of track development.
Now as for the number of deaths, for the participants, about 100 years ago, Hendee Manufacturing, the company that produced Indian, decided to pull out of racing all together, because too many people were getting killed. So this is nothing new.
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tbpmusic
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the hell, I guess every planet needs a Death Race, let 'em go.....lambs to the slaughter.
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Thomas8
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki rider James Hillier's big moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KuqaehOHc
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Russell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. You clearly relate exactly to what I tried to express. The difference between that 'moment' and death is too fine for me to be comfortable with. It was interesting seeing an interview with Guy Martin 2-3 days ago after his tumble off the Honda.The bloke was clearly quite shaken,a day or more after the incident.I felt I could hear doubts in his voice.
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spurlock
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me this video presents a thoughtful look at all sides of the issue of the IOMTT. Very good footage and well edited to present his opinions in an entertaining way.

YouTube video

-Bill

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