ethanol and carb floats

donthurtme · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: ethanol and carb floats

Is ethanol going to eat away at my carb floats if I switch my bike over to run on E85? I know I have to change a lot of other stuff too, but should the floats be ok?

BlueThunder · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject:

Don't change to E85! Performance will suffer. Alcohol doesn't have the same energy as gasoline. It will take more alcohol to generate the same performance. Both in horsepower and in mileage.

But to answer your question you will also need to determine what the new jetting will be. This will be trial and error. Slide and/or needle height will also need to be adjusted. Frankly, you will be faced with many, many, many days of trying to get the right combination. It will lead to great frustration. If you insist on putting yourself through this high level of frustration, make sure you use the Corona method... a Corona beer every 30 minutes.

Pika · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: ethanol and carb floats

You know, I've thought about this ethanol thing too. Seems I've read where it can pit the carb jets also. I use 91 octane now. It is more expensive but not in the long run maybe. The few gallons the bike takes compared to your car is something else.. Hell, the damned oil companies have us by the short hair anyway and aren't about to let go !!!. Confused

sr71cbx · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject:

-Ethanol/alcohol type fuels are highly corrosive to most carburetor metals and seals and also are hygroscopic, meaning they absorb water from outside air. You will also need to use a plastic or stainless steel fuel tank compatible with this type of fuel, as steel rusts when exposed to alcohol with oxygen present. Carburetors usually use a leather gasket set to seal properly with alky.
-Motor oils are also affected from the water-based nature of these fuels and get moisture contamination fairly quick, especially under racing conditions. Check the engine oil drained from a top fuel or alcohol race motor and it is milky in color from the moisture in it.
-Alcohol fuels work well with racing engines with very high compression and usually supercharged/turbocharged for maximum power output, but it generally takes twice the amount of alcohol fuel to make the same BTU's as gasoline because it burns so cold. This does absolutely nothing for economical operation when you have to add 2X the amount of fuel to get the job done.
-My opinion on ethanol/E85 fuel is that it shouldn't even be used for any kind of motor vehicle application and it is a political ploy to begin with. It doesn't even qualify as parts dip.
Just my

.

donthurtme · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject:

One of my friends wants to do an independent study for his mechanical engineering degree and we thought this could be a really cool project. Yes, I realize the work that will be involved and yes I realize I will lose some performance no matter what, but we just want to show everyone that it can be done relatively cheaply.

In my opinion ethanol is a political thing as well. I'm going to school as a chemical engineer so I get the spiel about ethanol being awesome all the time. Butanol is cooler than ethanol, but even cooler is the idea of modifying some organisms and making them just give you gasoline instead of this other crap. Some really smart people are saying they'll be able to do it some day. Ethanol has a lot more value as a precursor to other chemicals anyway.

lemuiexm · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:

Ethanol serves two purposes
1) to replace MTBE as the oxygen donor in the combustion process
2) to subsidize farmers.

It can be antagonistic to some elastomers however metal pitting shouldnt be an issue as the vast majority of fuel grade ethanols include a corrosion inhibitor.

The biggest problems with E85 are:
detergency - most EPA LAC gasoline detergents are not compatible with ethanol.
O2 Sensors - shouldnt be an issue on an old bike
water - its anyhdrous when they make it so it loves to suck up water (it will seperate if it gets too wet)

other than that you might run into some oddball problems here and there. If E85 is new to your area avoid it like the plague so the infrastructre can get used to handling it (gas stations have been a problem when it comes to tank maintenance).

jimw · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:50 am Post subject:

"My opinion on ethanol/E85 fuel is that it shouldn't even be used for any kind of motor vehicle application and it is a political ploy to begin with."

The information I have is that in an engine optimzed for alcohol, the mileage you get is about 20% better than diesel. You know racing engines use alcohol, and I do believe power = mpg, when the power is throttled down. I believe you'll find some very high mpg alcohol cars out there.

lemuiexm · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:

weight for weight ethanol contains less energy than gasoline and thus less than diesel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#Denatured_alcohol

tbpmusic · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:

This from the Haynes Honda 400/450 Twins manual (dated 1989 ), page 220.

".... a gasoline/alcohol blend, even if it contains cosolvents and corrosion inhibitors for methanol, may be damaging to the fuel system. It may also cause poor performance, hot-engine restart or hot running problems......"

I'll see if I can find anything in a Honda manual.......

bill

jimw · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject:

lemuiexm, nevertheless it's a better fuel if the engine is optimized for it. Also, it doesn't produce carbon and grind the engine away, thus giving phenomenal engine life.