Buyer Beware

smi481 · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Buyer Beware

The Bill of Sale vs. Clear Title problem has been around
for some time. The Triumph Owners Group addressed it
last year -

"Should I buy a nice used 1968 Bonneville, if the
seller will only give me a hand written Bill of Sale from another state?"

Once you purchase a motorcycle without a title, and payment has been
made to the seller, the new buyer is responsible for the vehicle,
including obtaining a proper title.

Many multiple bike sellers admit that they do not NOT go through the title
application steps because they do NOT want to pay their sales tax, in their state,
which is typically required when you try to obtain a title - i.e. 7% in
California, NJ & TN = 7% of a $6,000 purchase = $420.00 cash for
one bike. Imagine the cost they would incur if you they sold 6 bikes
a year on Ebay and apply for titles for each, before you sell the vehicle?
Their theory - Let the separate new BUYERS worry about it!

Or because there is SOME problem/reason
with the paperwork in the first place. When you buy such an
untitled vehicle - you buy the problems too.

So the burden falls on the new owner of an untitled Triumph to
apply for an Official CLEAR title.

And if YOUR Secretary of State does a LEIN National Title Search, which 46
states currently perform, and they find the vehicle is still titled to a
previous owner, perhaps the fellow who sold it to YOUR seller, guess
WHO has to try to clear up that MESS?

In our opinion, if a seller doesn't want to, or will NOT apply for or produce
a clear title for you, the new buyer, there is a REASON.

Typically, these sellers have owned the vehicle for years, taken abundant time
to prepare the bike for sale. Cleaning it, repairing little problems, taking multiple
pictures, etc. So WHY didn't they take care of "first things first - obtaining
a Clear title in their name?"

Is their time, standing in line a the Secretary of States Office, more valuable
than yours? NO it isn't. But many want the new buyer
to clean up their mess.

If the seller tells you there will be "NO PROBLEM" obtaining
a Clear State Title, for the bike you just "have to have," ask him
to do it BEFORE the sale. Or simply go to YOUR Secretary
of States office ahead of time and ask just how "easy" it will be
to obtain a Certified motor vehicle Title if you produce just a hand
written Bill of Sale, from an out of state seller?? It could be the best
20 minute investment you can make, before you send
away your money.

There is nothing like having the Triumph of your
dreams in your garage and a CLEAR Official Title in your hand.

Buyer beware still applies in 2007.

Arthur Weisburg

MrRH67 · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject:

It is always the hope that most people in this world are honest. I have a large collection of motorcycles and i constantly add to it, sometimes in order to get a bike that i want i might have to purchase six other bikes, most times some will have titles and others won`t . I f i do a deal like this my concern is to sell the other six bikes in order to recoup my money as soon as possible, with or without title.

In Calif. if you sell a certain number of bikes they consider you a dealer and i think that number is five, and every sale after that number needs to be reported to the IRS. Calif. also has put a value on most vintage bikes, you can walk in and say that you paid a couple thousand for a bike and they could tell you that according to their records the bike is worth ten thousand and that is what you have to pay taxes on.

I`am retired and do this as a hobby i have several hundred bikes in my collection, i simply can not afford to title every bike and have no plans to become a dealer.

smi481 · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject:

"In Calif. if you sell a certain number of bikes they consider you a dealer and i think that number is five, and every sale after that number needs to be reported to the IRS. Calif. also has put a value on most vintage bikes, you can walk in and say that you paid a couple thousand for a bike and they could tell you that according to their records the bike is worth ten thousand and that is what you have to pay taxes on."

Excellent point MrRH67. It backs up the Triumph Owners legal opinion
on reasons why sellers may NOT want to get ANOTHER title, before they
sell a bike on Ebay. In your state, that next bike sale just might put them
over the state limit and cause them problems with the IRS. So they look
for a sale, that they can do, with just a bill of sale on the sellers end.

jimw · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject:

Interesting question of liability if I have an accident with a vehicle in this state that belongs to somebody else as far as the state is concerned.