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Joined: Jun 02, 2010 Posts: 3 Location: western new york
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: t500 transmission oil? 1200cc? 1400cc?
i read something on here the other night, and now i can't find the thread again. i read that there was a flaw with pre-1973 t500, and if you don't keep 1400cc in it, it will burn up 4th and 5th gears. is this true? the thread also said something about making your own oil damn. i have a 72 t500... anyone with any knowledge of this problem would be much appreciated.
Joined: May 12, 2007 Posts: 275 Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:03 am Post subject:
You are correct, the early Titans did have a low oil condition from the factory. Keep in mind adding the extra 200cc of oil only works if the dam is installed. Without the dam the extra added oil will simply drain into the primary cover and leave 5th and 4th gears vulnerable.
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1279 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:06 am Post subject:
Bentwheel wrote:
You are correct, the early Titans did have a low oil condition from the factory. Keep in mind adding the extra 200cc of oil only works if the dam is installed. Without the dam the extra added oil will simply drain into the primary cover and leave 5th and 4th gears vulnerable.
Think about this. After the transmission and primary are drained, all new oil is added through the hole on the primary cover. Fluids seek their own level, and there are apparently plenty of passages through which the added oil can quickly migrate into the transmission. It doesn't take long before the oil level in the trans and primary are exactly the same, and the level could be checked by removing the level checking screw on the primary cover. Can't use that screw anymore, because it was set for 1200 cc.
So, what do we accomplish with the dam? Even if the gears splashed oil into that area behind the output shaft, They'd have to put enough oil in there while the machine was in motion, and drainage from there into the primary would have to be slow enough to keep that area full of oil and affect the level in the trans and primary. And I'm convinced that's exactly what was happening. Once the bike was brought to a stop, that area will drain back into the primary and transmission.
So if the oil level was okay at rest but dropped at road speeds, the dam by itself should eliminate the issue. Without the dam, the addition of 200 cc, by itself, should compensate for the amount contained in that crankcase portion at road speeds. In other words, with the dam not installed and 1400 cc in the trans, the oil level at speed would be exactly the same as at rest with only 1200 cc of oil. Installation of both the dam and an additional 200 cc will cause the level at speed to be higher than if only the additional oil were added. My hunch is they determined they could either add 400 cc, or use 200 cc plus the dam to get the level they wanted at speed. But raising the stationary level by 400 cc would cause too much clutch drag. That's the only reason I can see for both modifications.
Joined: Mar 27, 2010 Posts: 120 Location: Robbinsville, NC
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:10 am Post subject:
So what should I do with my recently purchased 1972 T500 with >15K miles showing on the odometer, i.e., tear it down or leave it alone?
There are no noises or rattles coming from the transmission and 4th and 5th gear appear to work just fine. I've added the extra 200 cc and am watching the tranny oil level closely as I evaluate the crankshaft seals. I do not know the history of the bike. I sure hate to fix it if it ain't broke.........
Comments? Suggestions?
CaptCatFish _________________ Old and ugly (but say it ain´t so)
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1279 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject:
CaptCatFish wrote:
So what should I do with my recently purchased 1972 T500 with >15K miles showing on the odometer, i.e., tear it down or leave it alone?
There are no noises or rattles coming from the transmission and 4th and 5th gear appear to work just fine. I've added the extra 200 cc and am watching the tranny oil level closely as I evaluate the crankshaft seals. I do not know the history of the bike. I sure hate to fix it if it ain't broke.........
Comments? Suggestions?
CaptCatFish
If the gears don't whine in 4th or 5th and you've added 200cc to the oil, I'd think it would be good to go. It's made it 38 years with no damage, and it likely was using the original 1200cc.
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