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The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Owners Group: Discussion Forums

Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Owners Group :: View topic - '73 CL100 fix-up


'73 CL100 fix-up
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spurlock
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Joined: Jul 08, 2014
Posts: 868
Location: Vacaville, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John550f wrote:
I will have to go out and get a magnet. I looked and looked with a flashlight and I cant find them. Explain this passage for me and its function. I do see a passage on the left side bottom in the back. Is this where it could have gone? Seems like the nut and the tappet would come off in one piece making it impossible to pass.


The only way out of the head are the two scalloped notches around the left cam bearing shown below. But the cam flanges and sprocket are most likely too close to those scallops to let the screw or nut pass by, so I wouldn't worry about them not being in the head.



If they are not sitting around the base of the valve springs, then they will be in the center area below the cam lobes. If lucky you will be able to fish them out with a very small diameter magnet, bent into a curve and fished through the space you see here below the rocker arm and shaft. Worst case is you will need to remove the points housing and the cam sprocket bolts. Then slack off the cam chain tension, pull the sprocket outward slightly so it will drop down, then lift the chain off the sprocket and remove the sprocket. Tie a safety wire to the cam chain, then remove the cam shaft and let the chain drop down out of the way. Then you can fish the magnet in through the left cam bearing hole. Note the timing mark on the cam sprocket when reinstalling everything.

-Bill


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John550f
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news!!! I will continue the search!!! I needed to see a good picture of the head behind the cam sprocket. Thanks so much Bill
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71 sl70
72 Cl100
1981 RM125 (project)
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spurlock
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John550f wrote:
Great news!!! I will continue the search!!! I needed to see a good picture of the head behind the cam sprocket. Thanks so much Bill


Of course you could always find a couple of big beefy guys to turn the bike upside down and shake it with the tappet covers off!

-Bill

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John550f
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I did turn it upside down and shake it. Nothing. Second I looked and looked and looked. Nothing. Next I took cam out and didn’t see anything. So I took a 10mm nut and tied it to some string. There is a port on the cam side of the valve case that vents maybe into the cam chain housing. I dangled that nut into the port to see if it could make the journey. Out it came into the cam chain housing tied to my little thread. I’m afraid my nut and tappet made that journey. Now waiting in the abyss to be rescued. I am not a happy camper right now.
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dgjessing
Weekend Warrior
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Joined: Aug 11, 2017
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Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bummer! But if it's been running with that screw out then the rocker arm and the valve stem are probably mangled, and ought to be inspected. Look at the bright side - it probably needs rings & stuff too, so this will force you to get in there and fix things.
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John550f
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah bummer for sure. I will inspect the valve stems and rocker arms. If they look good is it possible I took it off and didn’t put it back???????? Geez. I remember tightening them. I just don’t understand.....So will I need to split the entire engine to look for this? Also I just took the tappet from the exhaust side and I just don’t see how it could make that turn down that hole...would it be worth it to take valve springs off and check there. And what are the odds that the nut and tappet made it down that hole in the 10 min it was running???
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spurlock
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John550f wrote:
Ok so I did turn it upside down and shake it. Nothing. Second I looked and looked and looked. Nothing. Next I took cam out and didn’t see anything. So I took a 10mm nut and tied it to some string. There is a port on the cam side of the valve case that vents maybe into the cam chain housing. I dangled that nut into the port to see if it could make the journey. Out it came into the cam chain housing tied to my little thread. I’m afraid my nut and tappet made that journey. Now waiting in the abyss to be rescued. I am not a happy camper right now.


Oops, sorry I forgot about that oil return hole. So next step is to pull the alternator cover and stator coils and fish around. Possibly the screw has stuck to the rotor magnets. Also remove the oil filter screen cap and screen on the left side; there is an opening at the bottom that will let you fish a magnet in around the drain plug. Good luck,

-Bill

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1975 Honda XL250K2
1989 Honda NX250
1989 Honda GB500tt
1990 Honda GB500tt
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John550f
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the instructions. I will find it!!!
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72 Cl100
1981 RM125 (project)
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spurlock
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John550f wrote:
Yeah bummer for sure. I will inspect the valve stems and rocker arms. If they look good is it possible I took it off and didn’t put it back???????? Geez. I remember tightening them. I just don’t understand.....So will I need to split the entire engine to look for this? Also I just took the tappet from the exhaust side and I just don’t see how it could make that turn down that hole...would it be worth it to take valve springs off and check there. And what are the odds that the nut and tappet made it down that hole in the 10 min it was running???


There is definitely not enough room for the screw & nut to fit inside the valve springs. If the missing one is from the intake side it's hard to imagine it flying through to the exhaust side and down the oil drain hole, but it has to be somewhere. Start with the alternator cover.

-Bill

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1975 Honda XL250K2
1989 Honda NX250
1989 Honda GB500tt
1990 Honda GB500tt
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John550f
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s bothering me because it is something I could have prevented. Also there is another oil port on the intake side also. I just don’t see how it could have made that turn. Maybe it could have. Thanks Bill I’ll keep y’all updated. Also what timing marks should I be looking for on the cam sprocket and cam?

PS I didn’t mean to take over this post.

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1981 RM125 (project)
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dorT500
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey John Sad Reminds of a thread years back from member 650hardtail...or was it you? Anyway, a small bolt, nut,.... something... got dropped down in the crankcase just after starting to reassemble the engine and he came up with the idea of using his shop vac to try and recover it. A more likely recovery than what your situation is but he did get it. He just kept stepping down the size of the hose until it was small enough to get where he needed to get. He was a happy camper.

Good Luck

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John550f
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dor,
Haha no that was not me. I love that Idea. I will see what I can do. Thanks for the idea. I did drain the oil to see if there were any metal flakes in it. From what I can tell it was clea of metal. Fingers crossed I can retrieve this thing.

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71 sl70
72 Cl100
1981 RM125 (project)
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John550f
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So update. I can not find the tappet and the nut. I do not want to split this case. The main reason is because someone has done the whole weld the kick starter to the shaft deal. I have a shaft coming from E-bay. I have not tried the shop vac but I did take a strong magnet and move it around under the bottom of the engine cases to see if I could make it move and at least hear them inside. I am beginning to wonder if they are even in there. So frustrating.
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71 sl70
72 Cl100
1981 RM125 (project)
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John550f
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok
I got mad took the engine out and shook the heck out of it....looked inside the oil drain hole and there was the tappet looking dead in the eyes. Next I have to find the lock nut. At least I am not going crazy. !!

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71 sl70
72 Cl100
1981 RM125 (project)
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spurlock
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Location: Vacaville, CA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John550f wrote:
Ok
I got mad took the engine out and shook the heck out of it....looked inside the oil drain hole and there was the tappet looking dead in the eyes. Next I have to find the lock nut. At least I am not going crazy. !!


Good job John, sometimes it takes getting mad. I find that colorful expletives sometimes help too.

-Bill

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1975 Honda XL250K2
1989 Honda NX250
1989 Honda GB500tt
1990 Honda GB500tt
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