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The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Owners Group: Discussion Forums

Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Owners Group :: View topic - Almost done! but...


Almost done! but...

 
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tmass
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Joined: Jun 26, 2017
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Almost done! but... Reply with quote

Hopefully the last issue aside from some small oil leak I see with this bike, is the way it shifts or sometimes doesn't....

It will always go into 1st gear, and it will always go into neutral.
But some times on the up shift from say 1st to second or second or to third it like seems its between gears????
Not sure whats up with that yet. Its like there are neutrals between some of the shifts.

But when its on the center stand and the back wheel of the ground it sometimes does better.
Meaning it goes in to gears better.

That being said some one told me about a "detent" [sp] bolt under the crankcase that might help if the spring was stronger or moved up?
Anyone ever deal with something like this?

Thanks,
Tam
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Rizingson
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Joined: Oct 30, 2009
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Location: Parker, CO

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The X6 or T20, although it was the first production model 6 speed, wasn't known for having a strong transmission. Many were rode hard while banging through the gears causing shift fork damage etc. Another factor was just plain rider error, not understanding the shift pattern. It is 1 down 5 up with a positive neutral stop downshifting only, which caused many riders to stomp on the shifter harder a second time (bending forks) because they thought they missed first.
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tmass
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I hope I don't have to open that case to fix a transmission..... thought I was almost done with this thing.
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kbts250m
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes when a customer would have upshifting issues moving the shift lever down one spline on the shaft helped. I don't know how yours is installed or if you have room to do this but it's quick and easy and free to try. Also, I doubt if the neutral detent spring would make any difference but that's also pretty quick and easy to try. You might even be able to find a stronger spring at a good hardware store. Finally, there is a discussion somewhere about using full synthetic oil motorcycle oil made for wet clutches in the trans. Some people (myself included) feel it is better for engine life and makes for smoother shifts.
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dorT500
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Location: Galveston County, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbts250m wrote:
Sometimes when a customer would have upshifting issues moving the shift lever down one spline on the shaft helped. I don't know how yours is installed or if you have room to do this but it's quick and easy and free to try. Also, I doubt if the neutral detent spring would make any difference but that's also pretty quick and easy to try. You might even be able to find a stronger spring at a good hardware store. Finally, there is a discussion somewhere about using full synthetic oil motorcycle oil made for wet clutches in the trans. Some people (myself included) feel it is better for engine life and makes for smoother shifts.
+1 and add a full, deliberate motion while shifting up.
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Rizingson
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone mentioned clutch adjustment. Make sure it completely disengages.
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tmass
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could be wrong, but..
I was looking at a shift drum for the bike, I have an extra one. It looks like it has detents all around the drum in one place.
I don't know where the bolt with the spring is located on the the crankcase (top or bottom) or which bolt it is for that matter.
I think this detent bolt help holds the drum in place and or stops the movement of the drum when the gears are meshed.
Does anyone know the location of that bolt?

I can take pictures of the shift drum if this is really the problem I'm having.
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dorT500
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tmass wrote:
I could be wrong, but..
I was looking at a shift drum for the bike, I have an extra one. It looks like it has detents all around the drum in one place.
I don't know where the bolt with the spring is located on the the crankcase (top or bottom) or which bolt it is for that matter.
I think this detent bolt help holds the drum in place and or stops the movement of the drum when the gears are meshed.
Does anyone know the location of that bolt?

I can take pictures of the shift drum if this is really the problem I'm having.


I agree with member kbs250m....I don't think that is the problem but like he says, it sure wouldn't take but a few minutes to it check out.

The detent bolt........hhmmm, this spring doesn't look to happy..... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-TC250-T20-X6-Hustler-SM231B-Engine-shift-drum-neutral-bolt-detent-/232113833765?hash=item360b100725:g:kOwAAOSwPCVX89m8&vxp=mtr

Here are your engine cases. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-T20-250-Hustler-X6-1967-Engine-Case-Crank-Case-A23-/361941871692?hash=item54456aac4c:g:U5EAAOSwuxFY3vdj&vxp=mtr

Just back out all three bolts on the bottom of the transmission....it's probably the one on the far right.....one of them has to be it. No matter which one you take out, transmission oil is going to drain out anyway. I suggest you back them out and replace them one at a time so in case they all or a couple are the same thread/size........... you don't want to put the wrong one back in the detent bolt hole......that would not be good. shake

You don't think rotating the shift lever counter clockwise one spline (less upward movement of your foot needed) like suggested above will help? Are you sure that the splines on the shift shaft and shift lever are well interlocked, not loose.

Here is hoping you sort out the problem in short order.

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kbts250m
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dorT500 wrote:

Just back out all three bolts on the bottom of the transmission....it's probably the one on the far right.....one of them has to be it. No matter which one you take out, transmission oil is going to drain out anyway. I suggest you back them out and replace them one at a time so in case they all or a couple are the same thread/size.


Once you remove the plugs from the engine you either gently lay the bike on it's side or use a mirror to look up into the threaded holes while working the shifter. You'll be able to see which one aligns with the dimples on the shift drum. That's where you put the plug with the spring loaded plunger.

dorT500 wrote:

you don't want to put the wrong one back in the detent bolt hole......that would not be good. shake

No, definitely not good.

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Currently - 75 Suz TS250, 02 Kaw ZX-6R

Previously - 70 Suz T350, 71 Suz TS250, 72 Suz GT380, 72 Suz TS125, 72 Suz TS250, 75 Yam YZ360B, 72 Suz GT380 diy cafe racer, 80 Suz GS750, 73 Suz TS185, 82 Suz GS1100
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dorT500
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta be the hole on the left looking down on the engine facing forward......dimples are on the neutral safety switch end of shift drum......
Arrow http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-T20-250cc-X6-T-20-SM281B-Engine-transmission-gears-drum-forks-set/352113162300

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Last edited by dorT500 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dorT500
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something about all this seems familiar............





oh yeah. Smile

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tmass
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So yeah, the three bolts in a line under the crankcase the one closest to the shift lever, on my bike was an oil drain plug...
the previous owner must have just put any bolt that fit back in there when they drained the oil and left the bike to sit.

I found the detent bolt in one piece just like in the picture above (thanks for posting that!) in all the spare parts I have with the bike.
Big difference in shift quality, the only thing I couldn't find was the ball bearing and wondering if that is really part of the set up.
Anyway I'm happy Smile

Thanks to all for the help
tmass
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kbts250m
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Joined: Jul 20, 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tmass wrote:
the only thing I couldn't find was the ball bearing and wondering if that is really part of the set up.


What ball bearing? Are you referring to something in the picture above?

_________________
Currently - 75 Suz TS250, 02 Kaw ZX-6R

Previously - 70 Suz T350, 71 Suz TS250, 72 Suz GT380, 72 Suz TS125, 72 Suz TS250, 75 Yam YZ360B, 72 Suz GT380 diy cafe racer, 80 Suz GS750, 73 Suz TS185, 82 Suz GS1100
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dorT500
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's talking about that steel ball shown in the first ebay link I posted. Don't bother with it tmass.....it's not on the 1969 GEAR SHIFTING - NEUTRAL INDICATOR SWITCH parts fiche and I was actually a little surprised that ball was in that pic anyway.
Glad your suspicions were correct......I kinda broke the cardinal rule of troubleshooting.......NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING. Wink especially on machines that have been in contact with humans for 40-50 years. Rolling Eyes Smile



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GONE.......WITH A PUFF OF SMOKE AND A BLUR OF SPOKE
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:old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-F3vSrJIUQ
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tmass
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad I found this list, boy has this helped me out tremendously.
Putting the tag on the bike this weekend.
But still waiting on the seat to be upholstered.
Tim
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